Curse

Ba Ne · Jul 21, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap'n Hoek

Actually, I've gotten 2 of the bows, one smiting wand, one protective icon and the necro focus this week. So yes, it is still pretty easy to do. I just got the 5 avicara scalps and the 10 mountain troll tusks last night for a few of the items. Collector's items are still pretty common, even with a few henchies in the party, in my experience.

Cool beans. I was going to ask how long it took for you to gather those, but you've already answered that question (1 hour).

Haloknight9 · Jul 21, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

I think there is a bug with traders if you sell stuff from a bag. Cant confirm atm, but i hear it causes items to be sold for min value (30 for 10x common material like bones). The lowest buying price should be 150buy from - 30 sell to trader (meaning he got flooded with the item - i never have seen it fall lower than that prepatch). If you see 1000 buy , 30 sell - try out putting the items in your main inventory and request another price. If its still below 500, its nerfed beyond reason imho.

Thanks

ill try that. Yeah, I was beginning to wonder. Ever since the patch i would go up there and sometimes think the vendor hated me.

Arturo02 · Jul 21, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I don't think it was Anet's intention that people would farm right off the bat. I think they thought people were gonna do the missions, level up in the game and kill stuff along the way. Slowly, the good stuff would trickle in.

In any MMO the first thing you do is farm for xp and items.

asdar · Jul 21, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

The single fact in your post was that you are you and he isn't. I agree with you totally. You're you.

The rest of it is just garbage Haloknight.

If you like to farm, then farm. They didn't stop you from doing the exact same thing you did before unless you were bot'ing. You can still go kill flesh golems or run to chests or whatever other style of farming you want. If it's the act of getting the items you can still do it.

Nerfing farming decidedly doesn't hurt the economy. Supply and demand are still ticking away like clockwork.

The people making the money farming are rarely casual. They don't have the time to find the places where items drop. It's people who farm over and over in the same spot for hours that got nerfed.

So what you're asking for is places where people in the know can go to get gold easily while the rest can't. Either that or you want everyone to get free and easy gold which would lead to rampant inflation which we've already seen when every item was 100k gold if it was decent.

They're doing a great job on the economy and I hope they continue to adjust areas so that every place gives fair loot.

aB- · Jul 21, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Here is my whole take on this farming subject.

Some people find farming fun. And last time I checked, YOU weren't in control of MY fun. If I want to farm, let me.

Nerfing the drops is really going to make things bad. With so few great items, the price for them is becoming absurd. Just average items are also selling for large amounts of gold as well, as there are less of them to go around. The result of lack of drops is an increase in the price of everything.

Xonic · Jul 21, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

actually, the answer to farming is to increase drop rate. if every drop is rare drop then everyone's happy and there is no need to buy from farmres

Haloknight9 · Jul 21, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

The rest of it is just garbage Haloknight...

Your opinion, which i respect, yet no proof. So the above statement is technically pointless without it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

If you like to farm, then farm. They didn't stop you from doing the exact same thing you did before unless you were bot'ing. You can still go kill flesh golems or run to chests or whatever other style of farming you want. If it's the act of getting the items you can still do it....

I hate it when people overlook facts just to post the above garbage, this isnt the point... the point is that they are slowly starting to drop less and less. Need proof go farm somewhere other than droknars and griffions and see.. Should I really have to make a smite build to get good items these days? And yes i know i could probably go do griffions, but im thinking as a whole and for everyone. This can hurt more that just the farmers bud... please try to see this in a bigger perspecive. I could care less about my bank account at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Nerfing farming decidedly doesn't hurt the economy. Supply and demand are still ticking away like clockwork.....

Heh, yet sometimes i find myself wondering how its profitable to sell materials to venders for 1/10th of what they are selling it for. I will try the fix the person stated above, but i dont think thats what the problem is. And yes i watch the prices like a hawk. Hmmn... soooo maybe it does hurt it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

The people making the money farming are rarely casual. They don't have the time to find the places where items drop. It's people who farm over and over in the same spot for hours that got nerfed.

I disagree, I know people that have a set day for going out and farming, and they are casual players. Again, you are you..

No, its the botters that get it nerfed. See the numberous bot threads... Ill even post a few if youd like. I even remember anet posting that farming is ok, yet botting isnt. If i find that interview again, ill post it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

So what you're asking for is places where people in the know can go to get gold easily while the rest can't. Either that or you want everyone to get free and easy gold which would lead to rampant inflation which we've already seen when every item was 100k gold if it was decent.

Wow, throwing accusations are we.... *looks at his post above* I see nothing in my entire post that im asking for someone to tell me gold spots or asking them to be more exclusive to farmers or casuals. As for inflation. You really think that them nerfing spots and making stuff more valuable, thus at a higher price will help? You obviously read nothing that i posted. I would rather some weapons drop more (perhaps on bosses more) for the community. Then mr casual wouldnt have to spend countless hours trying to farm something or be forced to pay such and such to mr farmer. Grinding ruins a game sometimes, especially for people who dont like to grind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

They're doing a great job on the economy and I hope they continue to adjust areas so that every place gives fair loot.

For some reason I see them nerfing places till its only the really high end places that drop 'decent' weapons. And the people that are selling items now, get them for much more... Good for the economy *thumbs up sarcasticly*

Sunrazor · Jul 21, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

I really don’t believe that farming causes inflation. Quite the opposite: the more farming going on, the more deflation should be happening. Heavy farming should create a glut of high-powered items. With more 15-22 Fiery Dragon Swords floating around, the price on them should drop as those who have them are forced to sell for lower prices.

BurningPants · Jul 21, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunrazor

I really don’t believe that farming causes inflation. Quite the opposite: the more farming going on, the more deflation should be happening. Heavy farming should create a glut of high-powered items. With more 15-22 Fiery Dragon Swords floating around, the price on them should drop as those who have them are forced to sell for lower prices.

But you can't buy a fiery dragon sword from the vendor. And the more farming the more money that is generated in the GW world, no? Meaning vendors can jack up their prices.

I hate economics, so I don't know if I am right about the gold thing

generik · Jul 21, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningPants

But you can't buy a fiery dragon sword from the vendor. And the more farming the more money that is generated in the GW world, no? Meaning vendors can jack up their prices.

I hate economics, so I don't know if I am right about the gold thing

Supply and demand buddy.. So what are the sellers gonna do? They only have so much storage space.

The same theory with those who bought up all the ecto and shards from the traders in an attempt to corner the market. Did you see them succeeding very well? Not really, as long as one (stupid) seller is going to sell at a lower competiting offer, they can suck up all the ectos and shards as long as they want!

Similar situation with the swords, more farmers -> more sellers with swords -> more stupid sellers who undersell the market -> consumer wins.

Drakron · Jul 21, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

I don't think it was Anet's intention that people would farm right off the bat. I think they thought people were gonna do the missions, level up in the game and kill stuff along the way. Slowly, the good stuff would trickle in.

In any MMO the first thing you do is farm for xp and items.

No?

Look at the price of the Little Girls Cape and the Flute, people start farming right at the start to get Gwen those items.

Xonic · Jul 21, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

No?

Look at the price of the Little Girls Cape and the Flute, people start farming right at the start to get Gwen those items.

does the broken flute actually worth soemthing?... darn, I deleted it for the space...

Haloknight9 · Jul 21, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunrazor

I really don’t believe that farming causes inflation. Quite the opposite: the more farming going on, the more deflation should be happening. Heavy farming should create a glut of high-powered items. With more 15-22 Fiery Dragon Swords floating around, the price on them should drop as those who have them are forced to sell for lower prices.

Exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningPants

But you can't buy a fiery dragon sword from the vendor. And the more farming the more money that is generated in the GW world, no? Meaning vendors can jack up their prices.

I hate economics, so I don't know if I am right about the gold thing.

Close but actually heres how it works: People buy matierials to use on armor. Material prices at merchant go up due to people buying them and so does the buy price, benefiting the materials farmer. Material farmer goes and farms materials, sells them(vendors) the materials, gets an ok profit. Material prices at merchant go down due to material farmers selling, benefiting current people that are buying armor. They buy materials, and the process cycles.... unfortunely, the rune market seems weirder... more on that in a sec..

Now for the item concept: Item farmers farm at start of nerfs. Item farmer decides to up the price on thier item to see if people buy even if its expensive. Person A (casual) comes up: "how much?, no thats too expensive.. sorry" Item farmer: "Man.. oh well..." Person B comes up (Rune farmer, will explain): "How much? No problem...*dishes it out*" What happens? A standard price (which could be easily undermined but isnt... just followed) becomes established not due to a persons greed.. not fully anyway.. let me explain..

Due to the current rune system(it may have changed since the last time i checked...): Rune farmer (person b) goes out and farms at his favorite rune spot, and due to the rarity, yet frequency at which hes farming at a sup absorb rune drops.... o...m.....g.. he rushes to the rune trader to see its worth about 35k...jackpot he thinks.. and sells it..(rinse and repeat) sure the price may do down very slightly but since its very rare... the price is higher than it should be...people still buying it (most likely farmers)... thus making him rich.

Now onto the agrument by several people.. why not just lower drops? well... think about it, what would that do to the price of the rune? increase it more... and not just at the runes either... lets not forget about mr item farmer 3 paragraphs up... drops have decreased, making the items in his deposit box, even more valuable... so he ups it a notch... same scenario.. new patch:

Item farmer: "Come buy this blah blah blah for whatever..!" Person a (casual, has no idea how to mass farm like rune/item farmer) logs on and sees this, says: "how the heck am i supposed to make this money?" Item farmer:" You want?" Person A: "Hell no.. way to high for me.." Person B (rune farmer): " Hey ill take it...*dishes out the money*" Person A: "I don't have time for that kind of money..but ill try.." *person a goes out to 'farm' and finds out drops suck for some reason(hmmm wonder why)... and remember he has no idea how to farm.. which isnt his fault.*

The thing is if some things drop a little bit more, prices will go down, becuase its dropping alot more, but to do this other markets like the rune market prices need to be dropped severely. and droped more often.. theres alot of factors into play...but again... thats my two cents..

tanwarv · Jul 21, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I tend to agree that reducing drops for the following things hurts the economy (by reducing the overall supply):
- materials, especially rare materials
- items that you can extract materials from (which is almost everything)
- dyes
- collector's items

I would like to note that I have no problem with reducing money (gold pieces) drops from chests, as I think farming chests for gold increases the overall money supply, leading to inflation. I also suspect that botters go after these chests more than the item chests.

I did submit a bug report regarding the whacked trader behavior, but haven't heard back from Anet on it. I'm hoping this gets fixed in the next patch.

Thanas · Jul 21, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

I love how people can spew whatever bullshit they want on forums without anything to back it up. From personal experience, before the series of farming nerfs, the economy was relatively stable - ie: no selling worthless crap for ludicrous amounts. After the farming nerfs, I saw rune prices and everything else skyrocket. Great job. Nerf farming AND require it. What a great game plan.

Please read my post. I back up most of my points with information of have collected from various Anet interviews. It states that Anet is against excessive farming, but understabds that there are some farmers out there and that in the long term, the game will be made to accomodate them to some degree. Oh and if your going tompost please actually read what others have to say, as you obviously haven't. So who's spewing???

asdar · Jul 21, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Haloknight you just only want to hear what you want to hear. I never accused you or anyone. I pointed out where your facts weren't facts at all but rather your overly self important opinion.

Is the economy working? Yes quite obviously it is. People are buying and selling like crazy.

Can casual players get the best armor in the game? Well, yes quite easily.

Can you still go out and farm in every area you could farm before? Yes you can, farm to your hearts content.

What's your complaint again? Apparently the sky is falling on the little chick's head.

The economy is better than it ever was. Quit complaining. If you like farming then do it. If you like adventuring more do that.

You keep posting long meaningless replies that you seem to think make you look like some economic genius. It's just not that difficult to understand and what you look like to me is a know it all that doesn't really know anything about it.

The sky is not falling, casual players aren't left out in the cold without any possibility of getting the best gear. They won't even have any difficulty getting it.

If they want to go farm for gold they can and in a reasonable amount of time they'll be able to buy their items they want.

Thanas · Jul 21, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haloknight9

I disagree, I know people that have a set day for going out and farming, and they are casual players. Again, you are you..

No, its the botters that get it nerfed. See the numberous bot threads... Ill even post a few if youd like. I even remember anet posting that farming is ok, yet botting isnt. If i find that interview again, ill post it...

I have already posted that interview. PLEASE READ THE POSTS! The interview states that Anet accepts there are those who wish to farm. However it and other interviews state that excessive farming is not tolerated. You should note however that accepting there are those that farm, does not mean they promote the activity. In all fairness farming is contrary to the game concept and the only reason farming exists at all, is that Anet wish to try and accomodate as many people as they can. You should also note GW is still in its early days, so do not expect everything. I personally think farming is not what this game is about and it should be left out completely since it is counter-productive.

Haloknight9 · Jul 21, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Haloknight you just only want to hear what you want to hear. I never accused you or anyone. I pointed out where your facts weren't facts at all but rather your overly self important opinion..

Self important opinion, yet it seems to be a main concern of many people..hmmmn...

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Is the economy working? Yes quite obviously it is. People are buying and selling like crazy.

I never said it wasn't. I simply stated that if they don't fix a few things, it will eventually get worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Can casual players get the best armor in the game? Well, yes quite easily.

*shrugs* i guess... i don't remember that being the arguement, but i agree. If guildies help em or if they save for a good amount of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Can you still go out and farm in every area you could farm before? Yes you can, farm to your hearts content.

Missing the point still... why do people farm? To get items or money, even to have fun. I never said: "OMG I can't farm.." I said that the quality of drops is starting to diminish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

What's your complaint again? Apparently the sky is falling on the little chick's head..

Apparently sir, your not reading. But hey, do whatever you want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

what you look like to me is a know it all that doesn't really know anything about it.

Prove it, and ill be glad to be quiet the rest of this thread, promise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Casual players aren't left out in the cold without any possibility of getting the best gear. They won't even have any difficulty getting it. .

If they arent.... why are there so many threads asking on how to farm? Hmm intresting concept. Not to mention, even though it is an assumption, the players what wont post anything about it because they feel it wouldn't get answered, which im sure there are a few.

Cool Thanas, would you mind posting the links where those came from? I want to bookmark em. Thank you.

Sunrazor · Jul 21, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

Can casual players get the best armor in the game? Well, yes quite easily.

That I disagree with, and I'll back it up with two examples.

I'm not a casual player, but I play in a very casual Guild, and most people in my Guild don’t have the 15k armor. Yesterday, someone in my Guild who has been playing since the day that the game was released finally got his 15k Pyromancers armor – after he turned to farming and borrowed 10k from another Guild member. Or take my new Necromancer for example: after 32 hours of play and enough time in high level areas to have captured 22 elite skills (and I fight my way through areas, I don’t run through straight to the boss), she’s earned herself only about 27k. I haven’t bought her anything other than identity kits, salvage kits, minor runes, the post-Searing armor, and the Refuge armor. At this rate, I’d have to play about another 40 hours to get my 15k armor if I didn’t farm. For that matter, when she arrived at the Forge, she had less than 4k.

That’s not making it easy for casual players to get the best armor in the game.

Mister Pie · Jul 21, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I personally don't see the problem with having uber weapons. Just add an extra modifier that says "Works on non-humans only" and you are able to separate skill from time-spent farming in PvP (let's just end that there, I don't want to open up another PvE vs PvP debate).